tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post1713126893071921739..comments2023-12-23T13:25:43.770-08:00Comments on Rob Kremer: Jack Roberts talks in circlesRob Kremerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13842508120324878364noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-18133605060431903242009-04-07T17:44:00.000-07:002009-04-07T17:44:00.000-07:00It is the goonzu gold which make me very happy the...It is the <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/goonzu-online-c-150.html" REL="nofollow">goonzu gold</A> which make me very happy these days, my brother says <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/goonzu-online-c-150.html" REL="nofollow">goonzu money</A> is his favorite games gold he likes, he usually buy some <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/goonzu-online-c-150.html" REL="nofollow">goonzu online gold</A> to start his game and most of the time he will win the <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/goonzu-online-c-150.html" REL="nofollow">buy goonzu gold</A> back and give me some <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/goonzu-online-c-150.html" REL="nofollow">cheap goonzu gold</A> to play the game.<BR/>I always heard something from my neighbor that he sometimes goes to the internet bar to play the game which will use him some <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/guild-wars-c-48.html" REL="nofollow">gw gold</A>,he usually can win a lot of <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/guild-wars-c-48.html" REL="nofollow">GuildWars Gold</A>,then he let his friends all have some <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/guild-wars-c-48.html" REL="nofollow">Guild Wars Gold</A>,his friends thank him very much for introducing them the <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/guild-wars-c-48.html" REL="nofollow">GuildWars money</A>,they usually <A HREF="http://www.virgame.com/guild-wars-c-48.html" REL="nofollow">cheap gw gold</A> together.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-45321287283852347922008-11-15T22:11:00.000-08:002008-11-15T22:11:00.000-08:00Knock it off. One more time and your IP is outta h...Knock it off. One more time and your IP is outta here.Rob Kremerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13842508120324878364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-63387873148171919482008-11-15T19:57:00.000-08:002008-11-15T19:57:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-31744382430669508092008-11-15T12:06:00.000-08:002008-11-15T12:06:00.000-08:00Well - I guess it’s true: Disgruntled and delusion...Well - I guess it’s true: Disgruntled and delusional conservative do make the best comedians.<BR/><BR/>Back on the planet Earth, let’s see what you’re up against and why conservatives can’t win statewide elections on Oregon.<BR/><BR/><BR/>To start -- Coyote groused: /“Now I know it is cute of you, a self professed liberal moonbat, to bring up all those social issues as if to say those were the reasons Republicans lost in this last cycle. Yet, unfortunately for you again, none of those issues were...well...ISSUES in this election.”/<BR/><BR/><BR/>First, whether the so-called “social issues” were front and center at this year’s elections is inconsequential. Here’s a quick quiz: Which of the two main parties associates itself with regressive social policy?<BR/><BR/>A. The Republicans<BR/>B. The Republicans<BR/><BR/>As Mr. Kremer admitted (to his credit) Oregon is indeed a center-left state, particularly then it comes to social issues, and even when abortion, civil unions, physician assisted suicide, etc. aren’t on the ballot explicitly, any republican candidate will still have them wrapped around his or her neck like millstones, and especially among younger, well-educated voters (you know, the ones who hang around cities) advocating for regressive social issues is a loser. A quick illustration of this: in California, Prop 8 crashed and burned with the 18-29 set by 22 points (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1). And you think Oregonian of that age would vote much differently, you’re nuts. The tide’s against you, even on civil unions, and you can’t hold it back no matter how much you dearly want to. Republican really need to recognize that the electorate is changing -- has changed, and you ignore this fact at your political peril. You're getting a taste of it now.<BR/><BR/>And by the way -- it’s not just “this last cycle” -- it’s cycle after cycle. Tell me again the last time a “real” conservative (by your standards) won a state-wide election in Oregon -- (cue the chirping crickets). <BR/><BR/>A Republican who is pro-choice and supports civil-unions, I mean actively supports progressive views on these issues, can then run at a moderate on fiscal matters, and have some hope of winning the metropolitan suburban counties around Portland and the other cities in Oregon (where, in case you haven’t noticed, the votes are). Unless and until that someone comes along, it’s going to be a tough, tough slog for the GOP. <BR/><BR/>Ah -- but there’s the rub. The far-right religionists (with whom Republicans willingly chose to climb into bed when it looked like a good idea) will rise up in (self) righteous, furious anger and threaten to take their marbles and go home (or vote constitution party). Either tell the Christian dominionists hasta la vista and take the hit and start competing for moderate Oregonians, or be prepared to become a permanent minority party in Oregon where you can always look forward to winning water commissioner in Copper. http://oregon.hometownlocator.com/or/jackson/copper.cfm). <BR/><BR/>But if you do tell the far-right social malcontents to take a hike, and while it will take a couple of elections, republicans might then just start to be competitive statewide again. Which, believe it or not, I would applaud; sustained, decades long one party rule is never a good thing, but you’re giving us no choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-54747278598739623492008-11-14T22:24:00.000-08:002008-11-14T22:24:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-17645136023518521752008-11-14T19:48:00.000-08:002008-11-14T19:48:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-62356608498357979372008-11-14T19:47:00.000-08:002008-11-14T19:47:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-56692775156943129732008-11-14T19:42:00.000-08:002008-11-14T19:42:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-82994226933933988142008-11-14T18:47:00.000-08:002008-11-14T18:47:00.000-08:00And I would encourage all of you: Go to the libera...<I>And I would encourage all of you: Go to the liberal websites and post conservative positions using the handle "torridjoe".<BR/><BR/>It might be a lot of fun.<BR/><BR/>Dave Lister</I><BR/><BR/>You're not fooling me. The real Dave Lister just posted a message right above yours saying:<BR/><BR/><I>For my part, I do not intend to ever post again. So if you see a post from Dave Lister, you will know it is not from me.<BR/><BR/>The real Dave Lister.</I><BR/><BR/>So now we know the second post was a fake.<BR/><BR/>Unless the person signing off as the real Dave Lister wasn't the real Dave Lister at all.<BR/><BR/>Maybe that was . . . <I>the real TorridJoe!!!!</I>Jack Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05051441976722558504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-21609746616016926212008-11-14T18:43:00.000-08:002008-11-14T18:43:00.000-08:00Steve and I Am Coyote/Dave - Steve, talk about ski...Steve and I Am Coyote/Dave - Steve, talk about skipping points in a post.?! Where is the proof I asked for concerning this statement of yours: "A healthy cross section of Alaskans have already confirmed that Palin has governed without any injection of her faith." Also, Steve, you haven't responded to this statement from me? "Now, please be exact in explaining to me what about Palin I have distorted." What have I distorted, Steve. She said the pipline was God's will. She believes in rapture, damning all non-believers to hell. I don't want people with these beliefs running our nation. Coyote/Dave: I initially brought up Mabon because he and his ilk prompted me to leave the Republican Party. Steve responded about Mabon, so I responded back. Finally, Steve, my posts may be unpleasant for you to read, but I have not stooped to name calling as you have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-89350997682094108422008-11-14T18:24:00.000-08:002008-11-14T18:24:00.000-08:00Oh... a final thought.I think the reason that all ...Oh... a final thought.<BR/><BR/>I think the reason that all these false posts are going on with my name is because I sent out an e mail a while back encouraging Republicans to post as "torridjoe".<BR/><BR/>If you don't know, "torridjoe" is Mark Bunster. He's the lib that does the LoadedOrygun.com website.<BR/><BR/>Bunster is a city of Portland employee. He works for the IT department but is on loan to the fire department. He spends all day, everyday, posting on his blog and posting on other blogs, blatantly ripping off the taxpayers who pay his salary.<BR/><BR/>I have e mailed Mayor Potter, Erik Sten (when he had the Fire Bureau), Nick Fish, (now that he has the fire bureau) and fire chief Sprando about this Bunster's activities but none of them have taken any action.<BR/><BR/>I guess since they agree with him, they figure he can go ahead and keep politicking on the taxpayer's dime.<BR/><BR/>I will be doing a column about him and his activities very soon.<BR/><BR/>And I would encourage all of you: Go to the liberal websites and post conservative positions using the handle "torridjoe".<BR/><BR/>It might be a lot of fun.<BR/><BR/>Dave ListerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-46456990788053826562008-11-14T18:10:00.000-08:002008-11-14T18:10:00.000-08:00People have been posting all over the place using ...People have been posting all over the place using my name or my last name. I guess that's why you have to take everything in the blogosphere with a grain of salt.<BR/><BR/>For my part, I do not intend to ever post again. So if you see a post from Dave Lister, you will know it is not from me.<BR/><BR/>The real Dave Lister.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-6002052321769220782008-11-14T15:38:00.000-08:002008-11-14T15:38:00.000-08:00"I think your condemnation of all anon posters is ..."I think your condemnation of all anon posters is a bit exceedingly judgmental. <BR/>But hey have at it."<BR/>===<BR/><BR/>From one Anonymous "other Steve" to the Anonymous "Steve", I agree!!!<BR/><BR/>I think that this is the funniest:<BR/><BR/>" Anonymous said... <BR/>In the meanwhile, all you anonymous cowards can throw your bricks. Nobody is paying attention to you anyway."<BR/><BR/>And also this:<BR/><BR/>"Anonymous said... <BR/>I spit on all of you.<BR/><BR/>LISTER"<BR/><BR/>ROTFLMAO!!!<BR/><BR/>Some idiot, using the Anonymous handle slams other people for using the Anonymous handle.<BR/><BR/>And then he signs himself LISTER! What? Are we supposed to believe that it is THE Dave Lister, the East side guy? How do we know who the heck he is, when he signs on as Anonymous? And really, would the Dave Lister really say "I spit on you"?<BR/><BR/>At least with Jack Roberts we know who he is when he writes here, since he does not sign on as Anonymous.<BR/><BR/>Maybe that's how we know when Dave Lister is writing here... we shall know him by his words:<BR/>"I spit on you"<BR/><BR/>I am the Anonymous 'other Steve'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-59705197471224280092008-11-14T10:58:00.000-08:002008-11-14T10:58:00.000-08:00anon 851,"I oppose her for being a far-to-the righ...anon 851,<BR/><BR/>"I oppose her for being a far-to-the right Christian"<BR/><BR/>Well you're just wrong. I few twisted snippets an extremist does not make. The left is always casting any Republican on the political stage who exhibits any signs of Christianity as a Lon Mabon thumper. <BR/>You're doing it too. <BR/>Your brining up Mabon to begin with was a stunt with no relevancy to today's Oregon Republicans at all. <BR/><BR/>Palin has governed without any "far right Christian" activism worn on her sleeve or in her management. <BR/>That's a fact. <BR/>Oregon conservative Republicans (the un-refined) have been battling the reforming (refined) Republicans for years.<BR/>The current status is the Oregon Republican party has no identification. <BR/><BR/>You sure skipped over a bunch of more relevant points I made above. <BR/><BR/>You stayed on the religion thing and Mabon instead.<BR/><BR/>You ask. <BR/>"Finally, Steve, can you soften he tone of your debate"<BR/><BR/>Huh? It wasn't that hard.<BR/>There are many lefty loons.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if you are one or not but you might be connecting too many of my references to them, to yourself. <BR/><BR/>"duped, delusional, wrong, misrepresenting" <BR/>Take your pic.<BR/> <BR/>I'd don't find your contributions any more pleasant than mine. <BR/><BR/>Lister, <BR/>You apparently have a bone to pick with both Conservatives and anon posters.<BR/> <BR/>Liberal Republicans Paulus, Lundquist and Westlund found plenty of common ground with Oregon Democrats. I'd day that didn't work out so well. <BR/>Where's the conservative Democrat working with Republicans? <BR/><BR/>Do we seek common ground for the sake of common ground?<BR/><BR/>In a general sense you are right. There is room in this country for liberal Republicans and Conservative Democrats. <BR/>But I can't imagine a single policy where the liberal watering down makes it acceptable. <BR/>Nationally, the prescription drug coverage is a perfect example. <BR/>In seeking to assist the needy elderly drug coverage liberals extended the coverage far beyond them to affluent who have no needs. <BR/>Locally there are many similar examples in education transportation and land use.<BR/><BR/>So yeah there's room for everyone but as a conservative I want control to be in the hands of those those who produce sound policies that work. <BR/>"Common ground" sounds good but if it results in more of the same flops we've witnessed over the past 20 years no thanks. <BR/><BR/>As for the anon posting, Steve is my real name as you may know. <BR/><BR/>It's pretty simple for me. I don't want my whole name coming up on any google search. <BR/>Just as many people, small businesses and even Intel don't take public political positions for various reasons. <BR/>You write a column for Braninstorm NW magazine and perhaps have a motivation to circulate your name familiarity. That's all fine and good, but I have no motivation. <BR/><BR/>I think your condemnation of all anon posters is a bit exceedingly judgmental. <BR/>But hey have at it. <BR/><BR/>Coyote echoed reality perfectly. <BR/><BR/>"there is no huge "march" going on by the conservative,,,There is a march going on by the liberal wing."<BR/><BR/>And with all these conversations that liberal wing plays loose with the facts about who and what we un-refined conservatives are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-32934958611162968002008-11-14T05:50:00.000-08:002008-11-14T05:50:00.000-08:00anon moonbat,What da hell is it with your fixation...anon moonbat,<BR/>What da hell is it with your fixation on Lon Mabon and the OCA?<BR/><BR/>It has been over 15 years (actually closer to two decades) since he really had any influence at all.<BR/><BR/>Good Lord do you run around screaming like chicken little all the time? I mean to reach back that far to try to prove your point is just plain absurd.<BR/><BR/>And quite frankly, in the end, PROVES OURS!<BR/><BR/>That is that there is no huge "march" going on by the conservative wing of the Republican party.<BR/><BR/>There is a march going on by the liberal wing however. Because they try to use almost every election to drive out the majority of their party.<BR/>----<BR/><BR/>Dave,<BR/>Settle down.I am Coyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994485887123561822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-45051915632032316662008-11-13T20:51:00.000-08:002008-11-13T20:51:00.000-08:00Yes, she said it, Steve. It's on YouTube, and she...Yes, she said it, Steve. It's on YouTube, and she said it in her church. I'll admit to being wrong about Palin when you provide me with sources/facts that support your claim that "healthy cross section of Alaskans have already confirmed that Palin has governed without any injection of her faith." I did not/do not oppose Palin for being a Christian, I oppose her for being a far-to-the right Christian. I am a Christian, attend church, and believe that The Bible is a guide, not line-by-line fact. Now, please be exact in explaining to me what about Palin I have distorted. Movements too far to the right? Focus on the Family; Jerry Falwell; both politically active and both want the government to rule according to The Bible. I do NOT want Christianity silenced...again, I do NOT want The Bible to be our constitution. Mabon: You must not have lived in Oregon in 1992. I will do some internet research and show you that my statement about the OCA inititive is true. Steve, I don't hate anyone. You may identify with names the blues who hate, but leave me off the list. I did NOT trash Smith during the campaign. Far from it - I voted for him - so leave me off that list, too. Finally, Steve, can you soften the tone of your debate and just write what you believe? "Sorry pal," "screaming loons," "duped and delusional" add nothing to a debate. BTW - I have no pals in California.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-47226279319081312702008-11-13T20:28:00.000-08:002008-11-13T20:28:00.000-08:00And thanks Dylan. I appreciate your comments.I wi...And thanks Dylan. I appreciate your comments.<BR/><BR/>I will be contributing to the Oregonian, regularly. <BR/><BR/>I guess I am a liberal Republican. Certainly a Packwood Republican, which is ironic since I stood up in an assembly at Cleveland High School in 1972 and challenged him on his position on the ABM treaty. Most of you are too young to even know what I am talking about.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I think there is room in this country for liberal Republicans and Conservative Democrats. And at the end of the day that is where we will find common ground.<BR/><BR/>In the meanwhile, all you anonymous cowards can throw your bricks. Nobody is paying attention to you anyway.<BR/><BR/>LISTERAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-56222842613538763792008-11-13T20:02:00.000-08:002008-11-13T20:02:00.000-08:00anon 6:47Sorry pal your Palin example is more comp...anon 6:47<BR/><BR/>Sorry pal your Palin example is more complete Blue crap.<BR/>And of course you are re-phrasing what she said. Just as your blue pals claimed she said the war was God's will. She never said that either. <BR/>A healthy cross section of Alaskans have already confirmed that Palin has governed without any injection of her faith as you blues try to paint her. <BR/>Again you are wrong. <BR/><BR/>I'm glad you admit the Reps may be trying to hold ground now. The bulk of your screaming loons on the left insist they are pushing far right now.<BR/>Contrary to your duped or delusional notions since the 80's Republicans have been watered down. The early 90s had Paulus and other Rs weakening and joining the trend left driven by the other side. Her joint effort with the Katz/Kitzhaber democrats and few drifting Rs invaded our public schools with the School Reform for the 21st Century. Those unqualified and misquided "moderates" perpetrated the worst meddling mess in our school in Sate history. It continues today. A few years ago when conservative Republicans mounted a charge to repeal the refrom Paulus and Katz came back together and mindlessly defended the indefensible. Along with EVERY SINLGE democrat and a few Rs the effort was rejected.<BR/><BR/>So tell me what R movement has gone too far to the right for my tastes.<BR/><BR/>Mabon is not around, was never the Republican party and you did not get what I said. <BR/>What messure of Mabon's would have mandated teaching anything about homsexuality in public schools?<BR/><BR/>None. Here again you distort.<BR/><BR/>But you have diverted away from Rs to Mabon. <BR/>Lame stunt. <BR/><BR/>You blues contrive as you have with Palin. The fact that she is a Christian, attends, church and you had a few snipits you could distort was all you needed to trash her as some far right bible thumbper. <BR/>Again you blues were wrong and out of line. But that's wht you do. <BR/><BR/>Of course you blues always play the "evangelical right" card too trying to make out the R party as run by religious zealots. <BR/>Wrong again. <BR/>They aren't a bunch of zealots, they don;t run the R party and they are pushing the the a party to the right. <BR/>You Blues hate them for standing firm with their principals on gay marriage and abortion. <BR/>The same as they have "since the <BR/>80s". <BR/>Like other matters you twist out the McCain, Tom McCall and Smith.<BR/><BR/>During the campaign blues trashed Smith as a right winger aligned with all things Bush. <BR/>Now that he lost has he returned to being a moderate for your fresh BS? <BR/> <BR/>You really are narrowly confusing conservatism with your irrational embellishment of some imaginary religious monsters. <BR/>"my-way-or-damnation-to-hell evangelical conservatives"?<BR/><BR/>So you have a beef Christianity. <BR/><BR/>That's why you blues want it silenced. <BR/>Never mind that heaven and hell component has zero presense in the political ideological battles of today. <BR/><BR/>If you can't get a grip on traditional conservative Republicans perhaps you should just go march on some church like your pals in California.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-19087697555900711522008-11-13T19:03:00.000-08:002008-11-13T19:03:00.000-08:00Hey guys, I never claimed to be a conservative.But...Hey guys, I never claimed to be a conservative.<BR/><BR/>But I stand by my previous statement.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous posters are cowards.<BR/><BR/>Prove me wrong and put your name on your posts. Identify yourselves.<BR/><BR/>You won't, of course. You love to bash people behind the cover of your pseudonyms, but in the final analysis, your are gutless.<BR/><BR/>I spit on all of you.<BR/><BR/><BR/>LISTERAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-90011917654331472372008-11-13T18:47:00.000-08:002008-11-13T18:47:00.000-08:00Steve, it's anon you spoke to in your post above. ...Steve, it's anon you spoke to in your post above. The Reps may be trying to hold ground now, but since the 80's they've gone too far to the right for my tastes. Ex: Palin. The pipeline is God's will? Please. Lon Mabon and the OCA were not about gay marriage, Steve. I oppose gay marriage, but Lon Mabon and his ilk wanted homosexuality presented in public schools as wrong, a position I do NOT believe the public locally or nationally supports. We "blues" play the religious card only when it fits: it fits Sarah Palin, Lon Mabon, the evangelical right. It doesn't fit McCain or Tom McCall or, during the last part of his 12 yrs in the US Senate, Gordon Smith. I don't mind consevatism at all. I mind my-way-or-damnation-to-hell evangelical conservatives, just as I mind the-sky-is-falling (or warming) environmental zealots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-71883848565587411832008-11-13T11:32:00.000-08:002008-11-13T11:32:00.000-08:00Murphy and anon,Your portrayal of republicans coul...Murphy and anon,<BR/><BR/>Your portrayal of republicans could not be more blue contrived. <BR/><BR/>Republicans attempting to hold ground is not an act of going "TOO far to the right".<BR/><BR/>Lon Mabon and the OCA were not the Republican party although today's version of oppostion to gay marriage is consistent with majority of the public here and nationally. Including the one Obama himself. <BR/>The religious/bible card you blues play is contrived as well. <BR/>Your imaginations are out of control. <BR/><BR/>Norma Paulus is blue through and through. Player her up as the moderate Republican no longer allowed is absurd. <BR/><BR/>Murhpy, <BR/>Your'e the poster child for dishonest blues.<BR/><BR/>Casting Republican resistance to the left's aggression as<BR/>"the invasion of far-right theocrats" is pure nonsense. <BR/>There is not Republican push to use "government as a tool for inculcating their values upon everyone else."<BR/><BR/>Opposition to gay marriage is mainstream and NOT simply <BR/>"gay-bashing" as you distort. <BR/><BR/>Th super majority of the electorate is opoposed to late term and partial birth abortion which makes you and yours the extreme and the agressors. <BR/><BR/>As for your characterization of Republicans claiming to be the "party of God"? <BR/><BR/>That's more of your dishonest spin driven by your blue's demanding that Christianity be silenced. Again that makes you and yours extreme. <BR/><BR/>The idea that you would have ideas to help Republicans "stand a chance" is where you really set your hair on fire. <BR/><BR/>It's obvious your recomendation for Republicans would be to take on the Norma Paulus approach and turn completely Blue. <BR/><BR/>So here we are, on this, yet another parade, of blues and "reformer" Republicans casting us tradional conservatives <BR/>as some movement to the right, far right. <BR/>Attempting to be stationary is not movement. The right has no army on the move like the left with all it's sub groups does. <BR/>The loud, aggitated and agressive left pushes further left in every arena. <BR/>The only thing providing resistance are the tradional conservatives and the lingering center right common sense of Americans at large. <BR/>As the left reveals it's fanatical extremities with their new found power there may be a strong push back sooner rather later, that the progressives can't imagine possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-83570275673370196902008-11-13T10:47:00.000-08:002008-11-13T10:47:00.000-08:00Murphy:Ron Saxton was a lot like Packwood, Hatfiel...Murphy:<BR/>Ron Saxton was a lot like Packwood, Hatfield, et al. and he won the primary.<BR/><BR/>I agree that Oregon is now a center-left state. That is our problem. The Republican party has not really changed all that much - the Oregon voting public has. <BR/><BR/>Nobody is suggesting we kick out our center. That is such a fantasy - wasn't suggested here or anywhere else. <BR/><BR/>The question we face: given a voting public that has moved left, do Republicans give up the sound principles that Jack Roberts articulated above, or do we hold true to them even if it means we lose more elections?Rob Kremerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13842508120324878364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-46136852519008576432008-11-13T10:01:00.000-08:002008-11-13T10:01:00.000-08:00Anon 9:49 - I don't think so. It is really not...Anon 9:49 - I don't think so. It is really not the Republicans' problem that the Democrats went too far to the left. The problem is that the dominant media & celebrity-driven secular progressive culture let them get away with it because the culture is permissive and we are instructed to forget the mistakes of the past. The lurch to the left is not authorized by Obama's 52%. And it will fail. The Republicans just need to keep standing up for the private sector, freedom, liberty, responsibility. Because the left is against all of that and the Reid-Pelosi regime of the last 2 years is proof positive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-33919775017888117252008-11-13T09:49:00.000-08:002008-11-13T09:49:00.000-08:00I agree with Murphy. The Republicans went TOO far...I agree with Murphy. The Republicans went TOO far to the right. Oregon-wise, I voted for Dave Frohnmayer for governor, then not long after said my final good-bye to the Reps due to Lon Mabon and the OCA. I will not support candidates or policy based on the "we are right because we base our policies on The Bible....we are doing God's will, and only we know God's will" approach to politics. (FYI: Yeah, I know....some Dems can be equally myopic.) Murphy's right: unless the Reps are willing to compromise, you'll be second fiddles for a long, long time. That would be very discouraging, for I believe that the US needs two strong political parties. Right now, our country has but one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12596769.post-30372839859963604592008-11-13T08:59:00.000-08:002008-11-13T08:59:00.000-08:00OK I am going to come to the defense of Jack at th...OK I am going to come to the defense of Jack at this point.<BR/><BR/>While I agree with Rob that this particular op-ed was not Jack's best work, I don't see it as some "throwing down of the gauntlet." Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see THAT in there.<BR/><BR/>I also don't see Jack trying to lead the Republican party. I know in the discussions that I have had with him it has never come up and he has always seemed pretty happy where he is at. <BR/><BR/>So let's not start perscribing things to him that we don't know of yet.<BR/>----<BR/><BR/>murphybat,<BR/>Of course you comment sounded good to you in your mind before you actually wrote it.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately reality works against your fantasy.<BR/><BR/>The Republican fall came in the late 90's AFTER a major surge by the conservatives in the late 80's and early 90's won the R's majorities in both chambers.<BR/><BR/>Then along came the "moderates" (Patridge, Westlund, Williams, Gallegos, Lundquist, Shetterly etc...) who began working across the aisle and with each and every step the electorate started seeing less and less difference between the two parties and decided to go with the real Democrats.<BR/><BR/>When Eilene Qutub lost her senate seat she said afterwards that all the polling showed that it was her support of the gas tax increase that killed her. She let the lobby talk her into it and she knew at the time that it was probably the wrong thing to do.<BR/><BR/>Now I know it is cute of you, a self professed liberal moonbat, to bring up all those social issues as if to say those were the reasons Republicans lost in this last cycle.<BR/><BR/>Yet, unfortunately for you again, none of those issues were...well...ISSUES in this election. <BR/><BR/>Which makes your entire body of work (your 7:58 comment) completely wrong and misguided.<BR/><BR/>Bummer because you probably thought so highly of it before you hit the publish button.<BR/><BR/>yip yipI am Coyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994485887123561822noreply@blogger.com